Kris - I am still confused about what you will be comparing the blood testing results from 12 glider owners to.

You have 12 sets of tests from 12 different environments and 12 different "diet" variations - no two owners will be balancing their chosen diet with the exact same fruits and vegetables, treats, number of mealworms if any, plain veggies & fruits or smoothies, etc. Then you have gliders of variable ages, variable prior diet history, who live in different size cages, Different climates, and have variable time for out of cage exercise experiences....

You are comparing them to a known standard? (Merck perhaps) or are you comparing them to each other?

There are just too many variables in such a study to think there would be any useful data coming out. It seems to me this effort goes against all the elements of the scientific method to be useful.

I talked with Kris and we are cool but I think she only has 11 now. She understands the reasons I am backing out of the project. I wish you guys good luck.

Candy, how many times can it be said that this intial gathering of blood test results are NOT THE STUDY but preliminary data being gathered to show WHY there is a need for more detailed scientific studies to be done. Without showing WHY a study needs to be done, a grant will never be given.

If 6 different diets from 9 different houses (and environments) show there is a HUGE difference in the blood test results, then there is a reason to further study IN DETAIL in a CONTROLLED study to try to figure out just what IS the recommended daily requirements for GLIDERS.

If the results are all pretty close to each other (very small variances) then it will show that studies need to go in a different direction to determine HOW gliders are absorbing/using the calcium they are taking in. Again, this would be a study in a controlled scientific setting.

Candy, of course the vets will be using the standard table for where c:p ranges should be... they will be read as individuals just like YOUR vet would read about your glider... the only difference is 2 other vets will be looking at them and have in detail the food they were fed.

Thank you Anita and I totally respect you and your choices!! I love you!!

We still have 12 people... I bumped someone from the waiting list! Currently the waiting list is 10 so if anyone would like to be added for any future small testings please PM me!

and let me say something here too.... We are looking at FOOD given NOT diets being feed... We do have people feeding the BML diet but since there are huge variations.. we are asking for very specific detailed notes ON FOOD.. like 1/2 c chicken breast, 1 egg, NOT I feed BLG's diet.

Are the gliders that are in the study given complete well visits first? Fecals (floats, smears, and snaps) urinalysis, ect., to check for preexisting conditions or parasites that may alter the blood work from being accurate?

I guess I'm confused about the confusion!

Research projects have to start SOMEWHERE! I don't think that Oppenheimer said "I'm going to go into my garage and tomorrow I will have a weapon of mass destruction."

It takes trial and error. And yes - when one is working with A) Living animals and B) someone's beloved pet - you really hope that there is very little error.

It would be great if Kris, et al could give 100% assurances that this is going to be the be all and end all, no gliders will be harmed in any way, and the results will completely clarify glider diets and also bring about world peace. However, that's pretty unlikely. I see this as being more the first step. Hopefully, there will be many steps afterwards! Until we understand gliders at least as well as we understand dogs and cats.

I guess my advice would be - if you don't like it, or need more details then can be provided - step aside. PLEASE -- NO ONE should provide ANY information that they aren't comfortable with. NO ONE should have any tests performed on their gliders that they aren't comfortable with.

Whenever there is scientific breakthrough, there are people that push, and people that decide not to. Neither position makes you good or bad. So - take the side you are comfortable with, and let others take their own position.

Alden with all due respect, first of all, if you dont ask a question you dont know if there is an answer to it or not. Secondly I wish people would realize this was TRIGGERS thread and opened to ask about IF IT IS POSSIBLE FOR A GLIDER TO BE OD'ED ON CALCIUM, NOT about this study and I personally feel that it needs to be split and given its own thread and Trigger can get HER THREAD back on track, so maybe it is all of the talk about the study (my posts included) that needs to *Step Aside*

If you don't like the answers you get, it isn't doing any good to keep asking them waiting on the answers you want to hear.

And sometimes the answer you are trying to ask isnt coming across the way you are trying to have it come across so you try again, maybe just a bit differently...

Once again, this post NEEDS to be given back to the ORIGINAL poster. I am sure Kris would have no issues with this not going any further in TRIGGERS thread.

I guess this whole conversation was trying to answer Trigger, right?

The answer is, as I understand it, no one knows for sure. Not enough is known. But wouldn't it be cool if we could learn more?

This has actually provided me with many answers.

Mods I know everything I need to know, this post can be closed.

Sorry just saw you requested it to be closed

Closing post per original poster's request.