Not wanting to be negative but if the quantity or values of additional items added to a suppliment are not known it is impossible to make an accurate analysis. It is my thinking that if these additional items are insignificant then why are they added? And what impact will they have adding an unknown quantity to a gliders diet?

While I would like to see the end results of an analysis I think you are wasteing your time by using an inaccurate set of base figures. You already have mentioned a 30% variation between the weight furnished by RepCal and the one Randy established. A plus or minus 30% is not a very definitive comparison then with the other items thrown in where does that leave the analysis?
Charlie H

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />My brain hurts from all that!
I'll check my containers tonight and try to remember to bring them in with me.... Monday, I'm at work, no internet at home yet, still too poor of a college student for that, but if I can get over to my neighbors tomorrow I'll post then since they have the net.

I have to admit this is a very complicated subject and I don't completely get it. I hope someday down the line all this technical talk will turn into something in "english" for those of us who are always confused by the whole diet mess.

Really I'd like to see talks like this turn into diets that are simpler for the humans and more nutritious for the glider. It's tough for me to like the whole attitude of "Well this is as good as we can do for now." Gliders are VERY new to the pet world, therefore people like us and places like this(GC) need to help out where ever we can.

You guys are doing a super awesome job!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

Sending Randy scans of Nekton Sugar Glider - if you can't read the ingredients - I will cut the label off <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/agree.gif" alt="" />

Gottem Pockets. Running short of time tonight so will look at them over the weekend.


Please.......there must be someone out there who has a relatively new container of Herptivite who can see if it has the same label ingredients and amounts as what Amanda posted earlier in this thread????

Checked my Herptivite, and everything listed is identical to what Amanda listed...expiration date Aug. 2006.

HTH!

Karin

Randy, might want to check out what Susan Donoguhue has to say about Nekton products. Go to this link and scroll down to the seventh paragraph.

http://www.anapsid.org/vitamin.html

We presented this information to Nekton about a year ago and got a denial. Nekton stated that they would check into the allegations but we have never gotten any follow up from them. I have been unable to contact Susan Donoguhue.
Charlie H

Charlie, I would definately get ahold of Susan directly.

Nekton is World Famous for their products & have been used quite successfully for well over 30 years, many Zoological Parks Nation-wide use & highly recommend Nekton products above all else.

Many of these captive zoo species are highly endangered & on C.I.T.E.S listing, so I think if there was a serious problem it would be known.

I will also try to contact Susan, & a few Zoological parks, but I have also heard very similar claims against other products

[:"blue"] Karin: Thanks for posting that information!! I'm composing a message to Rep-Cal right now and will be on the phone to them first thing Monday morning. It is looking more like there may have been a change in the Herptivite formulation!! If true, everyone who feeds BML and wants to adhere to Bourbon's recipe is going to have to double the amount of Herptivite that is published in the current recipe.

Charlie: Thanks. I've seen that article before; but it was interesting to read it again....always see something I missed the first time!!

Anyone know how to get in touch with Bourbon??? I understand she is tooling around Florida somewhere. [/]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
There are two possible explanations that I can see for the difference. The most obvious and the one least considered is the accuracy of the "tablespoon!!" Most tablespoons are cheap little molded plastic gizmos from Taiwan or some such place and are not what one might reasonably call a precision measuring device. Other difficulty is the issue of "packing."

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Randy, that's what I was thinking it could be. My measuring spoons aren't the nicest ones out there. Also a spoon doesn't usually get filled the same way each time so I'm not sure what to think. I'd say that if they're telling you 7 and you got 8 and I got 10, well, then 8 sounds like a good number to settle with <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Hey thanks Karen! I know both my repcal and herptivite are not more than 9 months old....I walked out and forgot them this morning on the table, I'm glad to see someone go to it before I did.

Thanks!

okay guys! gotta a question..in opinion, what should i feed my glider? Rep-cal with pink or blue!

When I purchased my rescues he gave me a box of stuff and in it was cricket dust. Does anyone know anything about using that with gliders besides to dust crickets??

Hey guys, might want to try making a new post for those last two questions.

We're trying to stay just with vitamin analysis here.

THANKS!

[:"blue"] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />You need to feed both!!! The blue label is a vitamin and mineral supplement and the pink label is a calcium supplement.

The amount should be approximately 1/15 of a tsp. per day per glider of the pink label which is the calcium supplement and 1/30 of a tsp. of the blue label which is the vitamin supplement. If you are feeding the BML diet, the two supplements are included in the recipe for the BML mix and by following the feeding instructions, you will be feeding the proper amount. If you are feeding some other diet, you can simply sprinkle the material over the food. You can purchase measuring spoons at Wal-Mart and many other stores that will accurately measure out these amounts.

Buy the little 3 spoon set that is calibrated in:

dash.......1/8 tsp.
pinch......1/16 tsp.
smidgon..1/32 tsp.

What diet do you have your gliders on?? [/]

Good point, Amanda!!

Randy,

When you find out from Rep-Cal wether or not they have changed their amounts please post it in a new post as well as here. I just made a new batch last night, UGH! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tantrum.gif" alt="" />

[:"blue"] Chanda: Don't worry. If we find out there is something that needs to be done, I'll post it in a million places. Every glider board that I know of. My even have George make a presidential announcement. In the meantime don't worry. Gliders won't be hurt by any short term variations in their calcium or vitamin intake. Damage due to vitamin or calcium insufficiency develops over a longer period of time. [/]

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Very nice! Haha... Seems we may be in the midst of widespread international glider news if amounts of vitamins in Bourbon's Modified Leadbeaters needs to be... well... MODIFIED! Let's wait and see what the company has to say while we all play the waiting game... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

OMG! Randy THANK YOU!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

dash.......1/8 tsp.
pinch......1/16 tsp.
smidgon..1/32 tsp.

I've got that measureing set (came from Bed Bath & beyond for about $4) and I have been trying to figure out if it was exact or WHAT.... it was driving me NUTS <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tantrum.gif" alt="" />, LOL.... I'm glad someone confirmed my numbers on those spoons!

[:"blue"] I tried to call Rep-Cal today to get some info on our Herptivite "problem"; but their customer service capabilities leave something to be desired. Never did get through to a human being and got more than my fill of recorded messages!!! Finally gave up and emailed a guy that has been helpful in the past. Eric has always been helpful and usually responds pretty promptly unless he is off on vacation. Going to sit back and wait for for some insight from him. [/]

LOL I was eating a Big Mac last night and noticed how small the meat patties were and I remembered back in the day when the Big Macs were HUGE!

It got me thinking about this thread; perhaps the company (Rep-Cal) has been down-sizing and in doing so has shrunk the amounts of substances in their Herptivite products, and they're avoiding you Randy because you'll expose them more than they're comfortable with! LOL.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

[:"blue"] Mikey: That doesn't seem to be the case as I've had people respond with information from from labels of unexpired material and some have the concentrated stuff and some have the dilute stuff. Only way that would be possible is if the change has occurred just recently. raelly am scratching my head over this??? Hopefully, the puzzle will nbe cleared up shortly!!! [/]

LOL yes, perhaps it was a very recent down-sizing project is what I was alluding to. Definitely peculiar, Randy! Hopefully the powers contact you soon!

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

Mickey....lol...Big Mac. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />

Jackie

[:"blue"]For those of you who are following this closely, no response yet from Rep-Cal. [/]

ugh... this is what makes this whole topic SO much fun! Waiting and waiting and waiting..."The waaaiaaiiting is the HARDEST part!"

[:"blue"] Just to update all of you who have been holding your breath....... I have not received a response from Rep-Cal to my inquiry about the conflicting analyses on various Herptivite labels. Sooooo, I sent another round of E-mails and also sent a hard copy by snail-mail to the main office. Additionally, Karin tells me she has been chatting with Bourbon who is laying on some sunny beach in Florida( []http://usgn.org/board/images/smiles/rofl3.gif[/] ) and B is going to make an effort to contact R/C as well. In the meantime it will be sort of like being in the Army.....hurry up and wait!!! [/]

okay I spoke with Repcal.... they said back in 2002 that there was a misprint on the labling.. something about it saying 2 times the figues or something, I haven't read this thread, so I may be way off base here. but he assured me that the PRODUCT itself, has not changed in the time they have had it. He also took full responsibility for the mislabling. What he also said, is that if you have a product with the mislabled one, to please contact repcal, and they would be glad to exchange the product with fresh. This is a problem that occured in 2002. so randy if you have come across recent shipments directly from repcal that has the mislable on them. we also need to know that. have the people check the lot numbers and date codes. They said they thought they had gotten back all the mislabled product, that it is possible that there is more out there.

okay I just went back to read it to see what was going on.

Randy you said your date code was 2003, and he told me the product is dated for 18 months. and he would not suggest using it past that time. That would explain the different figures. but stressing the product itself has not changed, The current lables are in fact the right figures.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
...Randy you said your date code was 2003, and he told me the product is dated for 18 months. and he would not suggest using it past that time. That would explain the different figures. but stressing the product itself has not changed, The current lables are in fact the right figures....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"] B: Thanks for checking with Erik. I'm not actually using material out of that "2003" container. It is an empty one I just happen to have handy when I was comparing figures with those posted on this thread.

Apparently there are still a few mislabeled containers out there with expiration dates that are still current. Sheila has one and someone else posted on the other "HERP" thread that they had one. Since the container is a a rare oddity(like a misprinted stamp), think I'll put it up for auction on eBay....starting bid $999.99.....whatdaya think?? [/]
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

I have one of the bogus labels with an expiration date of JUN--2005. Lot # 7 88286 00300
Charlie H