<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />Good job!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

texashug...YOU ROCK! You put a lot into it, I know all I wanted to do was yell at them!

Texishug....Thats awsome! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> You get a big thumbs up in my book! I hope they start treating the little ones better! It is places like that that son't give other good petstores a good name... I helped shutthe petco down in my area bc of its lack og knowledge and care...They open up again and now it is a little better...But anywhere you go you can say there is room to grow...Good job! Maybe you could post the email on the board so others can print it out and give it to other pet stores that might need advice on Gliders? You rock <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

Here's the e-mail (attached). I hope I haven't included any gross inaccuracies. And before anyone tries to proofread it, etc., keep in mind that I was trying to be as non-agressive and non-confrontational as possible, as well as try to sound like I was on their side. In reality, I do think it would be best for pet stores to stop selling gliders (most, anyway). But I think we all know that won't happen. SO, I decided to try to make a bad situation as good as it could be (hence the end of the e-mail).

So again, here it is, for what it's worth. Thanks for all the support!

Crystal

I think you did a wonderful job...another round of applause!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

that is a wonderful and THOROUGH email! hopefully they will read that and take it to heart! good luck and good job! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

[:"blue"] Glider Greetings, Crystal: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

You are to be commended for your efforts to help these pet shop gliders in Austin. Here are a few thoughts that might help.

I think you might have more success if you approached the store from a slightly different direction. These shops are in business for one reason.....to make a profit. You need to direct your approach toward showing them how better treatment of their stock will improve their bottom line.

"Here is a list of improvements I think would benefit your gliders." Revise this sentence to say: "Here is a list of improvements I think would benefit [:"red"] YOU AND [:"blue"]your gliders:"

In your discussion of handling, point out that having store employees handle the joeys and carry them in bonding pouches will make the joeys less fearful of humans. There won't be the crabbing and biting that might "turn off" a lot of buyers. If customers see employees with bonding pouches, they are more likely to purchase one or more from the store, for themselves.

In your discussion of housing, you were headed in the right direction with the stocking of bigger cages etc. Perhaps you could suggest that the store set up a good sized cage that is outfitted with the necessities......toys, pouch, water bottle, wheel, rope and etc. and explain that customers are more likely to purchase cages and supplies if they can see a nice set-up firsthand. You might even copy some of the cage pictures from GC and add them as an attachment that the store owner could download and print to show as examples to customers of proper cage set-ups.

Concerning diet, I don't really have any strong ideas. Maybe someone else can think of something. I guess you could point out that if the gliders are already on BML, that the store will sell more Rep-Cal and Herptivite.

You might find a subtle way to mention that their stores receive publicity, both good and bad, on glider message boards(I would not mention GC specifically) and that hundreds, if not thousands, of people see their name if a problem arises.

Good luck with your project and keep up the good work!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> [/]

Thanks for the feedback, Randy! (I wish I would have had that first...but I didn't want to delay any longer as I have been dragging my feet with the e-mail and wanted to get it sent.) Some of what you mentioned I've already said to the manager in person (especially pertaining to the benefits of handling)...I was basically reiterating that in the e-mail so he would remember our conversation.

As I said, I'm planning on going in soon to talk to him again in person, and I think recommending that they develop a nice set-up (as an example) is a GREAT idea!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> I will try to print up some good cage set-up pics to bring in.
I will try to slip in the publicity issue as well.

Thanks so much for seeing my true aim...work WITH the system (subversively) by trying to "help the petstore turn a profit" and in the process make things better for the shuggies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />

Keep the feedback coming...I'm CONVINCED that we at GC can have a lot of positive influence over this particular small chain of stores!

Crystal <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />
and Punka <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> (my trusty sidekick!)

If BML seems to not be for them either since you have to blend it and blah blah blah... suggesting any other type of approved diet would work well too.....

Good luck!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

Hi! I am from Austin too, and have been to that store. One of the people who work there let me see them and I too saw what they were eating. I had also mention that they should soak the pellet food with apple juice if they intended to feed them with that. She also seemed very interested because she too fed her gliders "Glider Grub". So I had explained the problems with lumpy jaw and reffered her to the website.

It just makes me sad to think that those suggies are not being taken care of properly. that makes me want to go get them, but I guess that would promote them to go get more. I just feel bad about the ones that are there right now. Poor babys. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/upset.gif" alt="" />


Steph

Good luck to you, Texishug. I have tried to get these people to change for quite some time now, but they haven't. i hope that your email works. if it doesn't, it is looking like we might have enough support to start a petition or something.

What you can do if you are from austin (or anywhere close): visit the shop and form your own opinion. then tell anyone who uses that store that there are other options in austin they might consider.

If you feel like trying to talk to these people, come in with literature to back yourself up.

Kudos to you Texishug (also everyone who is becoming active in this) and again good luck. please call on me if help is needed.

heres a standing ovation for Texishug

Are there articles that y'all think I should print up hard copies of??? I'm already thinking of a phase two, since it can be easy to ignore an e-mail. Phase two will consist of donating a batch of BML and some frozen fruits and veggies, maybe donating a pouch, and putting together a short, but comprehensive, binder of info. (much like one would do to get USDA breeder certified, I believe).

By the way, how much info. are they require to have by law? Because all they have is the McPherson book. I'm not saying that's not adequate, I'm just wondering.

thanks everyone!

Crystal

Not all pet stores are bad though. I'm currently living in Japan (assigned here for the next 3 years), I went to visit a pet shop with a Japanese coworker who translated for me. I've been doing a ton of research on gliders and have decided to get a pair. The folk that worked there really love animals and try to handle them. They had two gliders that were kept seperate due to age differences - the older did crab and lunge, but this was directed at people she didn't know - and the younger was hand tamed and pretty ok with people petting him. I'm not positive what diet plan they were on - but it was a variety of items -everything from bugs to some jello-ish looking goo, and a couple other things I couldn't identify. They don't keep a lot of gliders there and for the most part, if you want one, you tell them what you're looking for and they take down your name and number, etc etc, and if they can locate it and have it brought to their location, they'll call you to let you know when you can pick it up. It's been a week and a half since I went - I'm on the list for two young females - but they rarely get more than one available at a time so it might be a while longer before I can get a pair of the gliders.
Biggest issue for me is due to my being vegetarian - but I'll post the expanded bit of that over in the health/nutrition area for some advice-fishing.

I know this is a year later, but a comment about this particular pet store. I got my glider returnee from there (a rescue in my eyes), and he could have been in better condition. They only give a 21 day guarantee. Ha! Anyway, my vet is familiar with the owners, and I complained to the vet about the condition of my glider. I also took in the handouts the vet had and gave it to one of the guys that works there (who is very understanding), and he said he would pass it on to the owners. My vet also said he would have a talk with the owners. I basically told the employee that it was ridiculous that the gliders would be sold to people and that the new owners have Nothing to reference in terms of their care (ultimately the condition of my glider and probably others like him). I am happy to say that my boy is now, after 6 weeks, 10 grams heavier with a healthy thick coat. He still won't eat the worms or touch BML, but I found out how to temper his diet to be at least proportionally better. He was raised on Glider Grub before I got him, so on occassion, I wet it down with a bit of juice and a pinch of gliderade and most of it is gone in the morning. With the aid of a blender, he eats veggies supplemented with vitamins and Ca++. Yada yada. I won't go into his feeding regemine, just know that he is eating very well and gaining weight. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

Hmm... I think I am getting off track, but I hope that our actions have helped this particular store, at least, get the idea. I need to follow up with my vet, but I told him that I was outraged that my glider was in such a condition and that I felt as though I had to rescue him. (Not looking for kudos - my heart was breaking for him.)

Thanks for reading the rambling.

Gliders-n-pits~

Would you be interested in helping me with Herpeton? I am actually starting to gather people, complaints and information against this store. If you are willing to help, shoot me a PM or an email.

Thanks.

A lot of pet shop owners/managers that I have come in contact with and or have talked with about their gliders are just plain ignorant of the specific needs of suggies and just need some education and have readily accepted info and suggestions...BUT there is no excuse for this man/shop in question due to the fact that he has chosen to ignore the needs! I currently work in a pet shop and since I have been there, the care and diet of the gliders that they sell has improved drasticly(sp). It was not easy.....but the suggestion of finding a young person who works at this shop and asking them to do it it a fantastic idea. I had to do the same myself with another co-worker due to the fact that I do not work everyday. I think you are doing the right thing! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

Well, it's like this... I want to help, but if it's in a constructive way. I don't think that strong-arming is necessarily the best solution. My vet said they sent feeding info to Herpeton. In the constructive way, I think it should be approached with compliments as well as criticism. The "you do this well, but could we work on this.." approach. Alienating them isn't going to solve matters, only get them angry. I am not sure how much of what is going on is due to owners that are buying the gliders being too ignorant or too stubborn to research. The guy I talked to that works there told me that they try to get people to buy the book (that green one), but even that one doesn't have adequate info - esp. for a newbie. Have you also checked with Zoo Keeper to see what their policies/practices are? I haven't yet. I hope that answers your questions. I know they try to push the Glider Grub, but I think that if we even get them to go to their natural diet of grub (mealies and crickets), and even wet the glider grub, we are doing a lot. One of the other guys said they have seen a low rate of HLP since using the Glider Grub. They tell me that they get criticism that the gliders aren't handled enough, and that some say they are handling them too much. I also know that Many of the employees have gliders themselves. So what is the plan? What can we do to improve the health and well-being of these guys?

In a nutshell, if we can do this on a constructive level, count me in. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> I was re-reading the messages and wanted to offer a "dispute". Yes, dogs and cats have been domesticated, and gliders do have special needs... But, that isn't to say that dogs and cats don't. Different breeds, my big one - the pit bull terrier, has special needs as well. You can't treat a pit, or any other bully breed (mastiffs, rotties, bulldogs, etc.), like any dog. Sorry, I had to say that. It's why bully breeds are put to sleep more than any other breed of dog.

Thanks for listening.

Well, the point is...as you can see by reading this post...that we have been trying to get them to change by being nice...they will not change. I know for a fact, that the owner of the store doesn't know much about sugar gliders at all...he sells them because they bring him in a lot of money.

Last September or October I dropped off simple care sheets at the Herpetons locations...come to find out...they threw them away because the diets listed "were to hard to feed" and were taking away his profit.

I'm done with being nice. I am now gathering information for a formal complaint. I understand where you are coming from, and you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar...but we've tried for sometime now and they really haven't changed much.

BTW...the copy of the care sheet was this:

Basic Glider Info Sheet

I don't think there is anymore than useful information in that information sheet and he just threw them away!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tantrum.gif" alt="" /> Not to mention when I was there a young girl that worked there pulled a glider out of the cage by its tail as it clung terrified onto the cage bars!

I don't know what to say. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> Maybe the USDA needs to be notified to do a covert "observation" at multiple times during a period to see what they think of the matter? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I, personally, don't know if gliders are the extent of how they "do business" on the matter. I also think that if the USDA got involved, they need to do a surprise inspection, not only on Herpeton, but on their "breeders". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> BTW, Katie, did you get my email about the vets?

Thanks.

A note on this. It's not that I don't agree that things could be better, but I had hoped things would be amicable. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I love my glider with everything in me and all I can do is hope that I do the best I can by him. This is why I "rescued" him from Herpeton. I more am upset with them for not giving newbies information to help them understand how to care for them and the committment involved. I didn't know myself when I got my first one, but I am not one to give up easily.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

omg Katie you never told me that.. the funny part is that's why i list the macpherson diet it's one of the easiest ones in the way of things they usually already have available...

that makes me angry.... do you know if they have a class B or C license?

Jannice~

Yes, I got your email late last night. I'll reply to it as soon as I get done with this reply. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tonia~

I don't know what kind of license they have. It made me furious when I found out about it too, because when I walked in and said, "Here's some information sheets for people who are interested in sugar gliders" one of the employees was all, "Wow! Thanks for bringing these in!"...grrr!

They don't have one listed by their business name.. so unless they have one just by the owner's name they aren't licensed as a broker (which they need to be)...

They also have to have their license where it can be seen... i'd go in and take pics of the gliders and proof they are selling them.. then ask to see their usda license.. if they can't provide it, fax the info into APHIS